An interview with Kim Gordon by Pamela A. Ivinski -- excerpted with
permission from Publicsfear magazine (#3).
When did you start playing music?</i><br>
I was in a band at York University with this friend of mine who is a pretty
well-known percussionist, a guy I went to high school with, and these two
Chiliean guys who were really funny and really serious, and then this girl.
We would sing, me and the girl. We played at the Ann Arbor Film Festival.
They pulled the plug on us. We were really noisy. Actually, Mike Kelley
saw us play there, which is amazing to me. He said it inspired him to make
noise music.
When you started Sonic Youth, it seems there was a closer tie between artists and musicians.</i><br>
Yeah. I don't know if you're familiar with No-Wave, but when all those
bands started up it was before people like Robert Longo and Cindy Sherman
were into their careers. They were young artists living in New York and
they were into going to shows. I don't know what happened, that scene sort
of died out. I became really separated. Either you did really experimental
music like John Zorn or more serious composer stuff. When we started up we
didn't really want to align ourselves with the art world because we weren't
writing music we could get grants for and we weren't really doing improv
like those people. So when the hardcore scene came along, even though we
weren't hardcore, we could kind of align ourselves with that network of
distribution. And people were definiately more interested in us in Europe
because of our arty image, but for the most part, anywhere else it worked
to our detriment.
It seems to me that, not just Sonic Youth, but your entire body of work is very aware of the fan/performer relationship.</i><br>
I'm interested in that. I used to write articles about that. I was being
inteviewed by Pamela Des Barres, and I asked her if she was attracted to
musicians because she wanted to be a musician, and she said 'Oh yeah,
absolutely.' At that time, even though they had the GTOs and they sang,
they never really took it that seriously and never competed with Jimmy Page
or guys like that, but they should have. For the most part, the whole
groupie industry is different from when she started.
Something that fuels the music industry is an absolute desire for another person, but it's something we characterize as feminine in our culture, although rock'n'roll is such a masculine thing.</i><br>
I've always felt that in order to figure out what it's like to be a girl in
rock -- because that's what people always ask -- you have to look at what
it's like to be male in rock. It is pretty unique --it's the only place
where men sing about their emotions, and to other men, in some accepted
way, and get up onstage and wear dresses. It's a totally feminine acting
out. I think for women, it's the opposite -- for some women it's being
able to be aggressive. Not necessarily wanting to be male, but to be
aggressive, and for men to be vulnerable.
Sonic Youth is very much about New York. It seems like it would be a pretty good place to live if you have some fame, because most New Yorkers wouldn't bother you.</i><br>
Yeah, people pretty much leave you alone. I spend a lot of time in L.A.
because I grew up there. I'm as bad a star spotter as anyone, but I rarely
go up to someone. It's funny, you do feel empowered if you're a fan. I
remember seeing that comedian, Stephen Wright, at a phone booth and I
walked up to him and said 'you're really great,' and he was totally taken
aback. It's almost like a way for people to have control over you, and I
do it every chance I get just because it makes me feel so much more
powerful than someone coming up to me and saying 'you're a role model,' or
whatever. Even though it's nice when you see young girls and you know
they're into you, it doesn't make you feel powerful. But going up to
someone else does.
How does pop culture affect your work?</i><br>
After "Tunic" and the Carpenters thing, I felt like people wouldn't take
seriously the fact that I really liked the Carpenters. It wasn't about
liking kitsch, or The Partridge Family, though you could make an
interesting case for The Partridge Family or whatever. I was afraid that
people would look at it as a novelty: 'Oh, yeah, they like pop culture.'
I didn't intend it to be superficial.
Do you identify yourself with feminism or any feminist causes?</i><br>
I guess so, though I find feminist ideology too strict in a way. I don't
necessarily get along with strict feminists because I find them intolerant
of somethings. I like a looser interpretation of things.
As you've done your own work, have you had some idea of your audience in mind?</i><br>
Not really. I think you make music for yourself. We're influenced by
what's going on around us, but our audience keeps getting younger and
younger because of MTV, which is nice, but bizarre. It's not like we're
making teeny-bopper music. It's kind of scary sometimes when your audience
is too big, you feel too responsible. When we have to do a big show, we
can't just play for 40-minutes, we've got to do better. It's kind of a
burden.
What about stage-diving?</i><br>
I think it's sort of a drag. I don't like it when people come up on stage,
they knock the microphone into your teeth and they unplug all the chords
and boxes and stuff. It's a drag for everyone else, and then they kick all
the little girls.
THURSTON MOORE. . . FUCKIN' BIO FOR SONIC YOUTH'S new CeeDee:
EXPERIMENTAL JET SET, TRASH & NO STAR
thurston is 6'6" tall and plays wild, stun-vol gitarr. He sings too! LIKE
A DOG WHO ATE A FROG.
He helped start SONIC YOOTH with his luv'r Kim Gordon. Kim you know about:
SHE'Z HOTT!
They decided not to take music lessons cuz . . . well, they couldn't fuckin
afford it!
But they listened to lots of BLACK UHURU rekkords and Kim mastered her own
Kim-style bassisms.
Thurston was interested in building toolboxes which could never be opened!
This activity led him into the notion of sticking slide-ryles beneath the
rusty strings of his borrowed Teleblister.
The sould was magnanimous. And enlightening!
They liked what they did better than that of B. Uhuru! Not to mention the
then reigning Althea & Donna!
Ya, dub was their call . . . but they also needed to apply the teachings of
theorist WALTER BENJAMIN into their scheme as he (along with M. FOUCAULT
and next-door neighbor DAN GRAHAM) was instrumental to their primary views
concerning "tunings."
GLENN BRANCA was thrashing the Soho district with mind-numbing aplomb when
he saw a flier that literally jumped off the wall (corner of Greene St. and
Prince).
He called Thurston and said, "Let's baggie!" and Thurston replied, "I think
the word is 'boogie' dude," at which time Kim grabbed the phone and
explained how it was important that Glen should start a record label, call
it NEUTRAL, and, before anything else, release a record by this new band
called SONIC YOUTH which she and Thurston had "formed."
Glenn was indeed inspired and not only did as she said but went on to
compose no less than NINE SYMPHONIES!!
Time passes through time's econium and Sonic Youth raged a-global and shed
their sound/light mystications upon whoever would show up at their
"events."
They decided the future was to have babies so signed to DGC/GEFFEN records
and recorded a concept LP concerning such matters titled GOO.
The rest is fucking history dude: THEY FOUND ANSWERS WITHIN BOTTLES OF
EROS and within those sightings begin explorations: The new CD/LP/MC is
the first chapter post the apprenticeship.
check it out.
peace,
thurston
NAME: Lee Ranaldo
NATIONALITY: Italian (Roman Catholic)
PLACE OF BIRTH: Glen Cove, Long Island, New York
DATE OF BIRTH: 3 February 1956
HOBBIES: Began guitar at 13 years
CHILDREN: One son, Cody Linn Ranaldo, now almost 9 years
BANDS PRE-SONIC: The Fluks, later the Flucts (1978-1980, Binghamton/NYC)
Plus Instruments (1981, NYC/Holland)
PLEASE GIVE A SUMMARY OF RECENT ACTIVITIES: This last year has seen lots
of activity. Experimental Jet Set half-writ spring '93, rocked at
summerfests, second half thrashed out and the whole alb recorded fall '93,
done by November. No touring this year thanks to further Sonic children
allows for a cool break from the write/record/tour cycle.
In February of this year, Leah Singer and I did our second European tour.
The shows feature me on stage reading stuff I've written, playing guitar
and mixing tapes, and Leah's films projected over the whole thing. She
uses film the way a DJ scratches records -- images jogging back and forth.
More shows to come.
I'm looking forward to having some writings in print this year. My first
book, Near Here, will be out in June from Soft Skull Press in NYC. A CD of
spoken words and music, with an accompanying book of the texts, will be
released by the Barooni label in Holland as soon as I finish it up.
On other fronts, I will be accompanying pal Michael Morley (Dead C., N.
Zealand) in his GATE alter-ego on U.S. dates in late April. Sporadic shows
with Wm. Hooker also continue. I look forward to recording with both of
these fellows. I-I-eye-I-me-ME ha lets see lets roll it all out and let it
dry in the sun for ya. I hope also to get a proper solo record (songs)
done before the summer's through -- I know at least a few of you noted my
lack of a vocal track on the new rec. Lastly, some collage/images which
began on European tour buses will be issued as silk screen prints by
ArtRock in San Francisco this summer.
Summer looks to include lots of activity, not least of which will be a good
bit of baseball with Cody (his first league year), bicycling, and the
contemplation of such things as gun control, ozone layers, meteor showers,
anti-tobacco, true friends, lost friends, cloud watching, Paris, the sea,
and finding a new apartment -- anyone with knowledge of any of the above
may contact me through the DGC Hardcore Hotline.
RECENT/UPCOMING OBSCURA:
tracks on the following compilations:
MELT, Works in Progress, U.K. -- a collection of noise works
CAGED/UNCAGED, Cramps, Italy --John Cage tribute for Venice Biennale
AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL, RRRecords, Mass. -- RRR 10th anniversary dbleCD
7" singles:
Pieces for 8 Gtrs, Table of the Elements, S.F. -- ambient stuff (I'm Silicon)
Five spoken wd. pieces, Precious Metals, N.Z., cover by Morley
blah blah seee ya . . .
STEVE SHELLEY
"This is possibly our best record for DGC. It's also the least commercial
major label record we've done . . . maybe that's why it's best," laughs
Sonic Youth drummer Steve Shelley when asked for a description of
Experimental Jet Set, Trash And No Star.
"In a way, it's a reaction to everything we've done and everything we've
listened to in the two years since we did Dirty. Before that record came
out, we'd been on the road with bands like Mudhoney and Nirvana, and I
guess you can hear the way that influenced some of the songs on Dirty.
Before we went into the studio this time, we toured time with Sebadoh,
Pavement, Royal Trux, and the Boredoms, and I guess some of the bio-fli
element rubbed off on us."
This lo-fi influence has manifested itself in yet another area of Steve's
life these days as well. Smells Like Records, Steve's label, has just
released its first full-length CD by Sentridoh (solo work from Sebadoh's
Low Barlow). The label has released six singles in its two-and-a-half year
history leading up to the Sentridoh album. Expect to see other long
players from Two Dollar Guitar, Sammy and Blonde Redhead in the next two or
three months.
One would think that between running a label and playing drums in Sonic
Youth, Steve's time would be booked solid, but he's managed to do a few
other things as well -- the most recent of which is playing drums for the
newly reformed Raincoats.
"I've always been a fan, so of course it's quite a privilege to play drums
with The Raincoats. It's a change from my Sonic Youth work -- especially
on the songs from the first Raincoats album: Palmolive was a great drummer
who played some really weird stuff. The touring was great; we did three
shows in London and a small tour of the East Coast. We also recorded a
Peel Session and wrote two new songs." Steve will be playing drums with
The Raincoats again for a summer '94 two-week tour of the U.K. and Europe.
More recording is also a distinct possibility.
Steve will also be touring the East Coast this spring with another combo
which will include Sonic guitarist Thurston Moore and Tim Foljahn
(Mosquito, Two Dollar Guitar). The group will be sharing bills with Gate,
featuring Michael Morley from the Dead C. with guest guitarist (and Sonic
Youth partner) Lee Ranaldo.
Does all of this side work have any effect on Sonic Youth as a band? "It
helps to keep everyone a bit more grounded. Basically, it's a re-learning
process. You realize that you don't have to make a jive-ass $200,000
